August TV shows

[dolorosa_12]

Just three things completed this month, and it's something of a miracle that we managed even that, what with all the visitors and travel. Those three shows were:

My Lady Jane, an irreverent, tongue-in-cheek, YA fantasy reimagining of the life of Lady Jane Grey, set in a world in which a persecuted minority of people have the ability to transform into different animals. I enjoyed a lot about this — the quippy dialogue, the over-the-top YA melodrama histrionics, the pointed use of contemporary pop music — but overall felt that it was trying to be too many things at once: YA fantasy, gleefully ahistorical historical drama (along the lines of The Great), political saga about the machinations of amoral, power-hungry people, and spread itself too thinly as a result. And the decision to replace the religious tensions of the Reformation in England with yet another supernatural-powers-as-metaphor-for-persecuted-minorities felt really frustrating to me (although it led to some superficially surreal and ridiculous moments). It's unfair, as if I'm berating the show for not being what I wanted it to be, but I increasingly feel that the total lack of inclination to explore religion (in historical settings where religion played a huge, foundational role in individual people's lives and the collective sociopolitical situations of their communities) is a lazy cop out. It's as if contemporary showrunners, authors, filmwriters, etc cannot actually conceive of a world — medieval, early modern, classical, etc — in which people actually believed in the religions to which they were adherents.

The Turkish Detective, which, as the title suggests, is a crime drama set in contemporary Istanbul. It's a blend of case-of-the-week with an overarching mystery, the latter of which is what drew Mehmet, the main character, back from Britain (where he was raised) to the country of his birth. To be honest, I actually think the show would work better as a cosy ensemble cast case-of-the-week mystery series and dispense with Mehmet, his manpain, and this broader arc altogether. Apart from anything else, this would mean that the whole show could be done in Turkish, as opposed to Mehmet being employed by the Turkish police, and the bulk of the dialogue (between him and his colleagues, and the suspects and witnesses they encounter) taking place in English, which was both annoying and ridiculous. Istanbul is a very pretty city, and I enjoyed that — and the soundtrack of Turkish pop music — but beyond that I probably wouldn't recommend this series.

The Jetty, a four-part miniseries in which a true crime podcaster shows up in a picturesque northern English town in an attempt to solve a decades-old murder, and dredges up a lot of buried secrets. The show isn't saying anything particularly new here — it's about the toxic nexus of misogyny and stifling small town life, and the corrosive damage they cause — but it's written and acted well, and makes seeing this familiar ground retrodden a pleasing experience.

Comments

[yarnofariadne]

I really think media in general could stand to examine religion in ways they don't seem interested in doing. Being a non-Christian in a Christian culture makes for really interesting people-watching these days but I could stand for it to be less interesting, to be honest. I think there's something about society right now that's really dedicated to holding onto the trappings of things they don't really believe in and I wish we'd examine that.

[dolorosa_12]

Do you mean stuff like otherwise secular people from a culturally Christian background choosing to get married in a church (even though they are not churchgoers or even believers in Christianity), or insisting that office Christmas parties, Christmas trees etc are 'totally secular?'

To me — a second- or third-generation (depending on which side of the family you count from) atheist from a culturally Christian majority country (but one that is much, much more secular than the UK) — all this behaviour makes a huge amount of sense, while also being understandably extremely irritating for people who are adherents of minority religions. Without organised religion (and specifically religion as a communal activity), a lot of people lose the majority of rituals and markers of the passage of time or important life events — and a lot of people really, really want these things, even if they have no need for a belief in the divine. So they either have to create rituals and markers from scratch (which is a lot of effort, and often what people want is a sense of experiencing these rituals communally, with other people for whom they have the same meaning), or they take the trappings of the majority religion, remove (from their perspective) the religious elements, and keep the rituals.

I would really, really like to see works of historical fiction (whether books, or visual) that assumed the majority of the characters in them actually believed the religion that they supposedly profess. There's a really unfortunate tendency to assume that most people just thought of religion as a proxy for political power, especially if the characters are fictionalised versions of the political/social elite of their time and place. The historian Bret Devereux has written, for example, of the difficulties he has convincing his undergraduate students that yes, actually the political rulers of ancient Rome did believe their religion (he says students just assume that because they — in the 21st century — find things about Roman religion ridiculous, any educated Roman would feel the same; 'surely only the uneducated masses really believed in this stuff,' is essentially what numerous cohorts of his students come into his classes assuming).

I think it's because most writers are secular, and are interested in politics, rather than religion, so religion only comes up if a writer feels it's being used cynically as a proxy for political power.

[yarnofariadne]

I mean both - it's both the pervasiveness of Christianity and the expectation that everyone, regardless of religion or lack thereof, will adhere to Christian social norms for everything from major life events to office parties. I do understand why it happens - but I don't think the people who, for example, push back at me when I say I don't celebrate Christmas by insisting that I don't need to be Christian in order to celebrate Christmas understand why they do that. I wish people would examine why they feel they need Christian holidays to be celebrated by everyone, and why they need Christianity to mark milestones and seasonal events in their lives, because I think that if everyone was more thoughtful about the way they engage with society and culture in their personal spheres, they'd be more understanding and accepting of people who are different.

I would also like historical fiction that treats religion more seriously. Selfishly I'd like people to be more respectful and less dismissive of my religion but even if that weren't to happen it'd just be a satisfying and interesting thing to watch.

[dolorosa_12]

I wish people would examine why they feel they need Christian holidays to be celebrated by everyone, and why they need Christianity to mark milestones and seasonal events in their lives, because I think that if everyone was more thoughtful about the way they engage with society and culture in their personal spheres, they'd be more understanding and accepting of people who are different.

I agree, and I assume it's because things that are part of the majority culture are just invisible to people who are part of that majority — fish don't notice that water is wet. People don't examine their assumptions, because they don't even realise these things are assumptions to begin with. (This is an explanation, not an excuse, and anyone who pushes back after a polite acknowledgement that you don't celebrate Christmas is behaving in an appalling, boundary-violating manner, and I wish they could see that.)

[lirazel]

Without organised religion (and specifically religion as a communal activity), a lot of people lose the majority of rituals and markers of the passage of time or important life events — and a lot of people really, really want these things, even if they have no need for a belief in the divine

One of the reasons I describe myself as religious instead of spiritual! I am agnostic and don't feel any interaction with the supernatural, but I think having the ritual and community pegs of a faith tradition is SO important to many people, including myself.

I would really, really like to see works of historical fiction (whether books, or visual) that assumed the majority of the characters in them actually believed the religion that they supposedly profess. There's a really unfortunate tendency to assume that most people just thought of religion as a proxy for political power, especially if the characters are fictionalised versions of the political/social elite of their time and place

I KNOW!!!!!!

[dolorosa_12]

I think having the ritual and community pegs of a faith tradition is SO important to many people

I came very close to starting the process of converting to Judaism for exactly this reason in my early twenties, but I just couldn't do it in the end — for me personally it felt like it wasn't enough of a reason, and the conversion would be insincere — so I put the whole thing aside. Since then I've tried to find other ways to build (secular) ritual and seasonal markers into my life, but they all feel very solitary and lack the communal aspect that you mention.

[lirazel]

I don't think I knew that! That's so interesting! I am glad you have found things that work for you--it's a tremendous amount of work to figure that out on your own.

[dolorosa_12]

Yeah, I never got to the point of actually doing anything, although I understood the process that would be involved (due to having grown up with close Jewish friends, and because one of my two undergraduate majors was Jewish history and culture), but I thought really deeply, intensely, and long-term about it, before coming to the conclusion that I wouldn't be converting for the right reasons. I don't really talk about it, and not many people knew about it at the time, because I've always had this sense that if I give voice to something, I have to commit to seeing it through, and I didn't want to commit to such a drastic change unless I was certain it was what I wanted to do.

[lirazel]

That makes sense! I am sure you approached with great thoughtfulness, which is what matters.

[superborb]

It's as if contemporary showrunners, authors, filmwriters, etc cannot actually conceive of a world — medieval, early modern, classical, etc — in which people actually believed in the religions to which they were adherents.

This is interesting because IIRC, you really enjoyed Hild, and that is the exact criticism I've heard for it -- that no one in it really lives with the religion and it's a cynical politics thing.

[dolorosa_12]

I guess I'm pretty inconsistent, in that case! I did really enjoy Hild, and I think my issue with this lack of engagement with religion is not so much about individual works, but rather with the body of historical fiction as a whole. If the story has something else that resonates with me (in the case of Hild, the emphasis on unglamorous, undervalued 'women's work'), I'll still enjoy it — while ignoring this broader problem. If the story (as in the case of My Lady Jane) has less of interest to me, suddenly the problem becomes more glaring.

[lirazel]

. And the decision to replace the religious tensions of the Reformation in England with yet another supernatural-powers-as-metaphor-for-persecuted-minorities felt really frustrating to me...but I increasingly feel that the total lack of inclination to explore religion (in historical settings where religion played a huge, foundational role in individual people's lives and the collective sociopolitical situations of their communities) is a lazy cop out. It's as if contemporary showrunners, authors, filmwriters, etc cannot actually conceive of a world — medieval, early modern, classical, etc — in which people actually believed in the religions to which they were adherents.

THANK YOU. This is why I just can't with that show. I know everyone loves it, and I'm happy for them, but I cannot deal with the fact that this is supposed to be about "Lady Jane Grey." If they made just a fantasy "historical" TV show, I would be all about it! But trying to tell the story of LADY JANE GREY of all people without grappling with the religious stuff? No. I cannot do it. Hell, the 80s movie with Helena Bonham-Carter at least tried!

I read the first line about the The Turkish Detective and got excited and then read the rest of the paragraph and felt deflated. What a waste!

[dolorosa_12]

I know, right — it just felt so unbelievably lazy, although there is no way they could have done the religious elements justice if they were going to keep that irreverent YA tone. Then again, the show of which it most reminds me — The Great — is historical fiction with a similarly ahistorical irreverence, but it does at least try in a broad brush manner to grapple with the burning social and political issues of the time and place (the tension in the Russian Empire under Catherine the Great between wanting to become a liberal European constituional monarchy or remain an autocratic empire in which individuals had no freedom of movement, association, speech and so on).

The Turkish Detective is such a waste of a great setting and some fun secondary characters who really should be the protagonists of the show. At least if anyone does want to make a cosy case-of-the-week mystery series about a curmudgeonly older police officer (and his loving, chaotic, large family) and an up-and-coming young female police officer (orphaned from a young age and living with her unruly younger brother) in Istanbul, they're free to do so!

[lirazel]

I keep meaning to watch The Great because I like Nic Hoult so much and it looks like fun, but I recently decided that the best way for me to watch it is to watch the silly moments via gifsets on my dashboard, and that is how I feel about My Lady Jane as well.

The Turkish Detective is such a waste of a great setting and some fun secondary characters who really should be the protagonists of the show.

The worst kind of waste!

At least if anyone does want to make a cosy case-of-the-week mystery series about a curmudgeonly older police officer (and his loving, chaotic, large family) and an up-and-coming young female police officer (orphaned from a young age and living with her unruly younger brother) in Istanbul, they're free to do so

I hope they do because I would watch the heck out of that!

[scintilla10]

Your critique about how much My Lady Jane was throwing at the wall is reasonable – it was a bit of a strange mishmash of a show! Personally, I had such a good time with its gleeful ridiculousness that it was easy for me to let that go and just enjoy the ride. I had great fun watching it!

[dolorosa_12]

It was fun — the gleeful ridiculousness was an absolute delight — but it felt really insubstantial, if you know what I mean. It's not something I'm going to be thinking about for years to come, or feel that it was unjustly cancelled.