Narrative dealbreakers

[dolorosa_12]

A discussion I was having in the comments of a previous post with merit made me realise something I'd never really thought before: just as I have tropes, relationship dynamics, and themes that are like narrative catnip to me, I also have the opposite — tropes whose presence will ruin an otherwise deeply enjoyable story for me. I'm not talking about tropes which are pretty much universally regarded (at least in the circles I hang out in) as dreadful (things like Bury Your Gays, women fridged for manpain, black characters dying first), but rather other common tropes which I dislike not because they reinforce societal inequalities, but simply because they're not to my taste.

These are the big ones for me:

A character being pressured by the other characters to forgive an abusive or neglectful family member, and welcome them back into their lives for the sake of 'closure,' 'healing,' or similar. I hate this especially if it's a child having to forgive their father (which is the most common iteration of the trope). The end result is often that the characters — and the narrative — minimises the harm which the forgiven character has done.

Heroines with supernatural powers giving up their powers at the end of the story in order to settle down and 'have a normal life'.

Immortal characters giving up immortality for love (or even wanting to). I much prefer the rarer alternative where the mortal and immortal stay together, knowing one character will die and the other will not, and accepting that consequence.

Love triangles being resolved by suddenly making one love interest a terrible person where they weren't before. This goes doubly so if it's a way to resolve a love triangle that causes a married character to be unfaithful to their spouse — I don't mind if the spouse was always terrible, but if they're suddenly written as horrible, it feels like a cop out.

Supernatural/superpowered characters keeping their identity secret from their family and loved ones out of concern for their safety.

Sisters who hate each other, especially if this is in a mundane/real-world setting. Oddly, I don't mind it if a story is about antagonistic brothers, or an antagonistic brother-sister set of siblings. (I've not seen this trope in which one or both siblings were nonbinary, so I can't speak as to my like or dislike of it with nonbinary siblings.)

Characters whose whole arc has been about finding a family and a sense of home and purpose among other people choosing at the end to give that all up and live alone (or alone with their love interest). (*shakes fist at the Obernewtyn Chronicles*) A related version of this trope has dispossessed/migrant/misfit characters choosing to return home to the land of their birth, after spending the entire narrative finding a family and sense of home in a new land or city. (*shakes fist at the Six of Crows duology)

Those are the main ones I can think of at the moment. What about you? Do you all have similar narrative dealbreakers? Is this something you've also thought about before?

Comments

[thawrecka]

I definitely have narrative dealbreakers, though most of them don't come to mind right now for some reason. Your first dealbreaker, though, with characters being pressured to forgive an abusive parent, is right up there in dealbreakers for me. I also can't stand domineering alpha male tropes in m/f romance.

[dolorosa_12]

Oh yes, that's another irritating trope.

I possibly read too much into the prevelance of this trope of forgiving abusers or neglectful parents in Hollywood material, but I often wonder if it's screenwriters or showrunners projecting their own issues as parents onto their stories. There's such a powerful narrative in our culture that if someone is a ~genius doing important work then it doesn't matter how badly they treat their families and those around them, and I often suspect that there's a bit of screenwriters' real-world experiences of being cut off by their neglected adult children, and how they wish things would play out in their own lives, in all these stories of children being pressured to forgive.

[merit]

Your first one is one of my dealbreakers as well. Ruins a narrative! Related to it; I severely dislike it when a child is forced to accept an absent/neglectful parents back in their life. Generally the child rebels and narratively this is depicted as a /bad/ thing because the parent figure is trying~~ however, trust is earned not given!

When the straight white male starts learning a new skill/martial arts/magic power and is instantly better (and often the chosen one) than the girl or woman who was initially depicted as better than him. Ugh, the worst.

[dolorosa_12]

I think a lot of people dislike my first dealbreaker — certainly when I've brought it up elsewhere, others have agreed. And I suspect its prevalence is coming from the real-world experiences of neglectful Hollywood screenwriter parents — see my comment to thawrecka above.

I hate your second trope as well. In general, I hate most 'chosen one' stories, and prefer it when heroism is a collective effort.

[merit]

Probably relates to how parents are treated as authority figures within Western society as well. And authority figures must be obeyed! Less because of any authority that may have been earned, but merely because of the position they hold. Generally this trope holds more with male figures versus female figures. Women abandoning their parental roles is generally looked down upon.

[dolorosa_12]

Yeah, most of the times I've seen it it's been fathers. I remember back when I was still watching Teen Wolf (I know, I know), the main character, is basically forced to forgive his neglectful, abusive father (who had been an alcoholic and at one point had dropped his son down some stairs when he was an infant), and ends up saying that he thinks his father 'did the best he could'. My blood still boils thinking about it. The narrative also implied that it was a bad thing he'd been raised by a single mother. I've seen that so many times in so many stories.

[merit]

Oh no judgement. I also had a Teen Wolf phase (and Riverdale! which my god). Though I did not watch up to that point. Super gross. His mum was such a better influence!! Death to this trope!

[author_by_night]

A character being pressured by the other characters to forgive an abusive or neglectful family member, and welcome them back into their lives for the sake of 'closure,' 'healing,' or similar. I

This trope never bothered me until I saw it happen to people online and IRL, where the forgiveness of behavior that never stopped (and probably never will) did more harm than good. It actually can hold people back, because in the eyes of a toxic parent, forgiveness doesn't mean a mutual understanding, it means you'll continue to do what they say at all times. I'm a very family oriented person, but... my family has always been caring and supportive. The same can't be said for everyone, and I think stories should reflect that.

What does ring true to me is that often there's a distance between children and parents who weren't abusive or neglectful per se, but just not wholly "there". They talk, and there's love, but it's not a close relationship. I think that level of forgiveness makes more sense in terms of narrative than full-on hugging and crying, you know?

love triangles being resolved by suddenly making one love interest a terrible person where they weren't before. This goes doubly so if it's a way to resolve a love triangle that causes a married character to be unfaithful to their spouse — I don't mind if the spouse was always terrible, but if they're suddenly written as horrible, it feels like a cop out.


Ugh, I HATE that. I also hate when the "sympathetic" party of the love triangle is just as bad, if not worse, unless it's being done deliberately.

As for my dealbreakers... I HATE disease as a plot twist. It's not really the writer's fault, I just can't and it will cause me to stop reading. I also hate when too much drama is thrown in, which does often go along with the disease plot twist.

Also, this isn't necessarily a dealbreaker, but I don't really love historical fiction that ends up focusing on romance.

[dolorosa_12]

Yes, I've seen this play out in real life as well, and it's not a genuine forgiveness. How can it be genuine when there's an element of coercion? That kind of 'forgiveness' is more about preserving the harmony of a group/family, or placating the hurt feelings of an abusive person, than offering healing to the person who has been abused.

also hate when the "sympathetic" party of the love triangle is just as bad, if not worse, unless it's being done deliberately.


Yes, I've seen that happen on more than one occasion. You wonder if the author is even aware of what they're doing, or if they're so in love with their creation that they can't even see how badly the 'sympathetic' love interest is behaving.

Disease as a plot point tends to get thrown into stories once the writers have run out of other ideas for amplifying the sense of drama, and while it's not a dealbreaker for me, I can definitely understand why you'd dislike it.

A huge amount of historical fiction focuses on romance, and it's not always obvious from the book's cover description if this is going to be the case, so I can see why you'd be annoyed by that if it's not to your taste.

[schneefink]

I've never really thought about it before... I probably have some but it's hard to pinpoint it right now.

What comes close is currently a sadly common trope in Good Omens fanfic: two people have a very close relationship for many years, and then they Realize They Love Each Other Romantically and they Have Sex and now it's a Real Relationship, and Much Stronger And More Important than before *headdesk*

[dolorosa_12]

Ugh, I can see why you would dislike that. There's got to be a way to value and give voice to queer (romantic, sexual) relationships while also making space for and valuing deep, non-sexual friendships.

[forestofglory]

Huh. I've been thinking about tropes recently. I'm very impressed by how some people can rattle off a list of catnip tropes and was trying to figure out what mine are. I think there are some but they tend not to be the romance style tropes I tend to see most when people talk about tropes. I like chacters feeding each other, and Alien Baffled by a Cat, and tense family dinners.

There must be some tropes I don't like to.... I definitely don't like the superhero secrets but I generally dislike characters keeping secrets for dumb reasons. I have a certain amount of embarrassment squick so I don't like tropes that play characters making fools of themselves in public.

[dolorosa_12]

Oooh, tense family dinners is a great trope! I also really love the sort of medieval literature version of this (it also pops up in folklore and some modern epic fantasy) where a character shows up at a feast (or some kind of large meal situation) and causes complete and utter chaos, undermining the relationships and harmony of everyone present.

I think I've got better at rattling off lists of tropes because I've signed up for so many fanfic exchanges, where the norm is to write letters outlining your favourite tropes (and those you dislike) so as to give your assigned writers guidance. I probably wouldn't have been able to articulate them so well previously.

[forestofglory]

I like your unexpected guest trope too!

Oh I hadn't thought about how exchanges would shape people's ideas about tropes but that makes a lot of sense.

I'm still kind of quietly poking at transformative works fandom going "this is different how interesting". I'm trying to do it these nice people have invited me in and I want to respect their culture way though.

[dolorosa_12]

Unexpected, chaotic guests have such a fairytale quality about them in terms of the effect they have on stories. I love pretty much every version of that trope!

[regshoe]

I agree on several of these! Really everything in the 'story dangles something interesting and unusual in front of you and then goes haha, nope, we're taking the lazy way out' meta-trope—of which I'd call the second, third, fourth and last on your list examples—is really frustrating. My least favourite variety is the one where a female character begins the story happily single and talking about how she never wants to get married or fall in love with a man, then marries/gets together with a man at the end.

[dolorosa_12]

You're so right — so many of those tropes are just lazy storytelling.

I don't mind that trope of the happily single woman ending up with a man, but I hate the related trope where a female character has stated repeatedly that she has no interest in having children, and the narrative contrives a way for her to get pregnant, change her mind about parenthood, and keep the baby.

[cloudsinvenice]

- "Relationships cannot succeed." I hate it when a show spends months or years gradually getting a couple together, and then once they are together, they don't know how to write interesting stories about a partnership that survives, so somebody has to have an affair or, as in your love triangle trope, become an arsehole. Or they kill one of them off.

- Keeping secrets for plot tension: the secret identity thing is a subset of this. I hate the "will they find out, wont' they find out?" thing, and I suspect it dates back to watching Lois and Clark - I'm not sure if they ever actually did a reveal that wasn't retconned away, but I remember it as this interminable situation that you knew would never change, yet they insisted on dangling the possibility in front of you forever.

- A friend brought this one up years ago in relation to Atonement and I agree: Surprise War, i.e. any story that doesn't start up being about war, but the character joins up and suddenly you're reading a bloody war book you didn't expect.

[dolorosa_12]

I'm so, so sick of the idea that happy, stable relationships are boring. Strangly enough, there are ways to create progress and change in married (or otherwise long-term and stable) relationships that don't break the couple up or kill one half off. It's just that writers don't seem to know how to do so.

I never watched Lois and Clark, but I've seen enough shows with a similar premise, and I don't think I've ever seen a version where it's done well. It always just seems so disrespectful to the person who's having secrets kept from them — surely if you loved someone, you need to be open with them, and given in those kinds of canons the villains always target the superhero's love interest, telling said love interest about their secret identity will help keep them safer, because at least they'll know what they're up against! (And I know from real-life situations where spies hid their identities from their families it messed the families up immensely when they finally learnt the extent of the deception.) That's one reason why, although it's a flawed show, I will always be grateful to the Buffy writers for not hiding Buffy's secret identity from her friends and family — they were safer knowing about the supernatural goings-on so that they could fight with the right tools.

I've never actually thought of Surprise War as a trope, and in fact Atonement is the only story I can remember where this is a plot point, but if you've encountered it enough it must be a regular thing, just not in the kind of stories I read/watch.

[cloudsinvenice]

That's a really great point about BTVS as a counter-example to the secrecy thing. And this is going off the point a bit, but I remember years ago getting into an interesting discussion about the impact of secrecy in things like HP, where there's a younger audience: how many times would they have been safer, sooner if they'd confided in someone, etc. Of course, that was before we learned the extent of Dumbledore's machinations... but it is interesting to look at Buffy from that POV: it's nice that the message is, "You can trust people with the deepest parts of yourself."

[dolorosa_12]

"You can trust people with the deepest parts of yourself."

What a beautiful way of putting it. And yes, I value stories that say this so very, very much.

[laurenthemself]

I hear you so hard on Obernewtyn. I was super disappointed.

[dolorosa_12]

The ending made me so, so angry. What was the point of writing seven books showing an isolated and (dangerously) self-sufficient character finding a family and sense of home if her narrative reward is to have that home and family taken away from her, and to return to isolation and lack of human connection?

[goodbyebird]

I had such a sense of relief when Kara just blurted out "HI I'M SUPERGIRL" to the people important to her in like, the first episode. So removing said trope definitely increases my enjoyment. (ugh Lena, my heart)

I'm also a very cranky curmudgeon when it comes to love triangles - such a thorn in my side when reading The Hunger Games - and don't get me started on how getting romantic makes it a ~real relationship~ and oh so much deeper and more precious. :/

[dolorosa_12]

Yeah, my enjoyment of Supergirl (and eventual decision to stop watching) is probably directly tied to how irritated I got the longer they dragged out her refusal to share her identity with Lena. I hated that development so much!

I read a rumour -- although I don't know how true it is -- that Gale was originally going to be written as Katniss's cousin, and Collins was basically forced to add in a love triangle due to that trope's supposed popularity, so had to hastily transform Gale into a childhood friend (and thus someone possible as a love interest). It certainly wouldn't surprise me.

[naye]

What a fascinating question! I'm with xparrot and doctorskuld and we're having a great discussion about it now. None of us had a list ready, but I'm working one out now. Here's two:

- Love triangles. The traditional one where one person "has to" choose (or leads them both on) and the odd one out is cut out of the story forever/goes evil.

- When a character crushes on someone, is rejected, and the narrative has them continue to carry a torch and hit on the object of their affection every now and again. Really, anything with not taking no for an answer. Ugh.

- "Men and women can't just be friends"

- "Dark and gritty" in the Game of Thrones sense where there is lots and lots and lots of completely gratuitous violence (esp sexual).

But I don't think I have anything that will make me stop reading/watching, because some tropes can be subverted or written well enough to be worth it?

[dolorosa_12]

I hate your second and third tropes a huge amount, and while I'm not of the opinion that fiction directly influences reality, I think they help sustain an environment where men do not listen to women. In particular, they then do not listen to women when we say no to romantic relationships, or that we think of them as friends rather than potential partners.

I have a low tolerance for love triangles, unless they're resolved in unconventional ways (such as the two potential love interests ending up together, all three people ending up in some form of polyamorous arrangement, or none of them ending up together at all). I get more annoyed about them being resolved in the irritating way I outlined in my post than about the presence of love triangles at all.

I'm a bit tired of gritty grimdark violence, although it's not a complete dealbreaker for me. The version of grimdark I really can't tolerate at all is the Kameron Hurley version, where the world is a matriarchal dystopia and women are inflicting the violence and oppression on men. I don't know why, but I've always found it unpleasant and intolerable to read about/watch women be cruel. Female villains/antagonists are fine, women who fight and kill are fine, but women who revel in cruelty and torture I find completely repellent from a storytelling perspective. I don't mind the more common iteration (where men are inflicting violence on women, children and/or other men) if I'm in the right kind of mood, although I think ASoIaF and Game of Thrones are far too self-congratulatory about how revolutionary their use of this trope is.

What's been really interesting about the response to this post is that it appears there is a common handful of tropes that almost everyone I know really detests, but then every has their own bizarrely specific narrative preferences as well.

[trascendenza]

Things that will nope me out of something:

• Too much focus on any of the following: scenery/geography/setting, fight scenes, political intrigue.

• An ensemble cast where no one really likes anyone else. I can deal with this for awhile in the beginning, because I love a good antagonistic-to-friendship arc, but if it just stays relatively antagonistic I can't.

• People being awful and mostly just staying awful. Ex: I made it to S2 of Shameless and hit my limit.

• The ~cowboy~ who comes in and saves the day through impulsive, ill-planned decisions, while quieter, harder-working, and more level-headed people are completely shoved aside and narratively treated like they were "wrong" for not believing in the cowboy from the beginning. (AOS Kirk and Spock felt this way to me in the first movie. I aaalmost didn't make it far enough into B99 to get past the part where Jake felt this way to me, too.)

• When the narrative is saturated with revenge, betrayal, backstabbing... probably why I'm not super into court/political intrigue stuff.

I also agree about a lot of the ones you've listed, especially the "person creates a found family and then abandons the life they've built for themself in the end," though it's hard to nope out of that since sometimes it happens at the last minute, ugh. (Eff you, White Collar! I'm still angry at you!)

[china_shop]

(Eff you, White Collar! I'm still angry at you!)

That made me think of White Collar too! *shakes tiny angry fist at TPTB*

[trascendenza]

I'd never really experienced the sensation of "I can never, ever forgive the people who made this thing happen" until White Collar and Sleepy Hollow burned me, albeit in much different ways. *joins in fist shaking*

[dolorosa_12]

I loathe your ~cowboy~ trope with a passion. I've always been more interested in stories of quiet competence, slow, consistent, persistent everyday labour and so on, so this obsession with chaotic mavericks who ~don't play by the rules~ really irritates me as well.

I love political intrigue, backstabbing and the like, and I don't mind stories with a strong focus on scenery and setting if it's done well — I like stories with a strong sense of place, where the setting is almost a character in its own right — so I don't share your dislike of those particular tropes.

The bickering ensemble cast where everyone dislikes each other I find infuriating. Unless it's one of the above political-intrigue-with-backstabbing stories, I want to read about found family, not people who spend all their time together but seem to violently dislike one another!

[trascendenza]

where the setting is almost a character in its own right
Mmmm, true, sometimes that can be very well done! I seem to remember liking that sense of place in Un Lun Dun and Neverwhere. But my attention will start drifting with Tolkien-level landscape prose a few paragraphs in.

[dolorosa_12]

Awww, I like Tolkien-level landscape prose! But I can see that it's definitely not something that everyone would enjoy.